From:
"Barbara Bouton" <bbouton columbus.rr.com>
Subject: Otto Rudolph Martin
Date: Sun, 28 Sep 2014 10:05:23 -0400
Hi Mark,
I am trying to
contact
anyone who is connected with Rudolph. He was my grandmother's
godfather, according to the Christening record. He was in
Cincinnati circa 1887. There were three brothers:
Otto Rudolph,
Philip (who had a bakery in Dayton, OH), and my great-grandfather: Paul
O.
Martin, a furrier in Cincinnati. Could you help me with a
little
more information about their father William? I know my
grandfather went back to Germany at some point to visit him; and then
later, on a later document, he lists William as having died.
I have my
grandmother's
postcards from Carola. She and Carola were contemporaries as
well
as cousins. Unfortunately, neither girls were big on long,
newsy
missives. But it does make following some of the movements
possible.
Can you help me?
Barbara Bouton
- great-granddaughter of Paul O. Martin, Cincinnati, OH.
|
Barbara,
Thanks for your email. My wife, Sally, is Otto Rudolph's
great-granddaughter.
Its really exciting to hear from you. Sally knows practically nothing
about Otto Rudolph's siblings.
Attached is a photo of who we were told was Phillip Martin. Bette Baker
Clarno, granddaughter of Otto Rudolph only told us : "Dad's
youger brother, Philip. I think he lived in Cincinnati". Bette called
her grandfather, "Dad".
Maybe this photo isn't Phillip but might be Paul ??? Do you have a
photo we can compare it to?
I think I have quite a few photos that I can send you. Give me a day or
two to investigate on this end.
Mark (cousin-in-law) |
1898 Dad's
youger brother, Philip. I think he lived in Cincinnatti.
Comment from Bette Baker Clarno - she called her grandfather,
Otto Rudolph Martin, "Dad". |
Hi
Sally & Mark,
The family resemblance is really there. I don't have a scan
of my
ggf on this computer, but I will be sending you a picture of Paul O.
(Otto?) Martin in a day or two. Your pic I think is
Philip.
There was another brother who stayed in Germany, but I haven't been
able to track him down. There is a Rudolph Martin in Germany
who
was connected with the Kaiser, and possibly was a brother of William,
our gggf. I only learned originally about Otto Rudolph when
searching for Carola. She was quite a lady. I THINK
she was
married and outlived 3 husbands before finally dying in a
convent. I have a few post cards that she sent my
grandmother. My grandmother, Anna Maria Eleanora Martin Grill
was
6 or so years older than Carola. Philip lived originally in
Cincinnati, and possibly was a policeman. He
moved to Dayton, Ohio, where he started a bakery. It was a
flourishing business until a devastating flood destroyed a lot of the
town. I haven't had time to get to Dayton to do more digging,
and
unfortunately, Montgomery County, Ohio, has very little information
online. A number of years ago, I hadn't made the Martin
connection to Dayton - only the Grill ancestry. If you can't already
tell, I am also very excited about finding cousins!
Let's keep in touch!
Barbara |
Barbara,
Have you seen the photos on Dan Soderberg's web page. Dan is descendant
from Otto Rudolph's son Rudolph Otto "Val" Martin.
http://www.dsoderblog.com/?cat=6
Mark |
That's
how I found you. I am trying to find out about my
great-grandfather's family - the family which includes my ggrandfather
Paul O. Martin, a furrier in Cincinnati; his brothers Phillip Otto
Martin who ended up as a baker in Dayton, OH, and Otto Rudolph whose
daughter Carola was my grandmother (Anna Maria Eleanora Martin)'s
cousin. Through the website about Bette, I discovered gggf's
name
of William. Not surprising, by ggf Paul named his son William
Frederich for his father. I have been jabbing at the brick
walls
of the German connection for a number of years. My aunt once told me
that Grandpa Martin said there was a connection with the Hollenzollerns.
The Cincinnati Enquirer had an article about ggf Paul receiving a
letter from his brother in Dortmund, Germany, and his brother's view of
the Kaiser's strengths, and that he only wished he had more sons to
give to the cause.
Otto Rudolph
Martin is
listed on my grandmother's christening documents as her
godfather. This took place before Rudolph took off for
Oregon.
Any information about these connections would be greatly
appreciated.
Barbara |
Hi Barbara,
This is
Sally. I
totally remember my Aunt Carola. (She was my Great Aunt, the
sister of my grandmother, Francis Martin.) My memories of
Aunt
Carola:
My mother was
raised by both
her mother and her mother's parents (Otto Rudolph and Agnes).
Carola helped in her raising also. I stayed at Carola's house
with my sisters for a week when I was 8 years old (1956). I
remember being afraid of her (ha!)...she had a strong
personality. She was married to my "Uncle Joe" (Joseph
Kennedy). He was a very sweet man.
She would send
each of us a
dollar or maybe two on each of our birthdays and at
Christmas. We
always sent thank you notes and would exchange letters other times too.
My older sister
lived near
her in her later years (Carola in Portland and my sister, Sue, in
Beaverton), and was in charge of all of her affairs. I
remember
celebrating her 90th birthday with her, and we 3 young women sang a
song that we had written for her. When we came to visit as
she
was nearing 100, she didn't remember any of us anymore. (She
was
still so lucid and said, "I don't remember any of you, but I am so
happy that you are here to visit.") My mom was sad that
Carola
couldn't even remember her that she had helped raise. She was
in
a retirement home when she passed away at the age of 102.
Carola was
always very good
at keeping up with her friends and relatives during her life.
She
also saved everything. I'm not sure how my sister handled the
liquidation of all of her "stuff."
We always
called her "Aunt
Coda." She lived so much longer than my grandmother (her
sister)
who passed away when she was 65 years old.
So we are
definitely
cousins! Mark is the real geneaologist, so he'll be in
communication about those details. My mom was real interested
in
her roots before she passed away, and Mark helped her a lot with
digging back.
My mom wrote
her autobiography,
I think Mark has it online? You would probably have fun
reading that with some familiar names here and there.
We'll keep in
touch!
Sally |
Sent:
Monday, September 29, 2014 8:46 PM
To: Barbara Bouton
Cc: sally DiVecchio
Subject: RE: Otto Rudolph Martin
Barbara,
Carola had three husbands:
John Pope Graham
(married 1920),
Robert Mackenzie (married 1924)
and
Joseph Bell Kennedy (married 1929, he died 1976).
I get the feeling that the three Martin sons were all Otto:
Otto Rudolph
Paul O. who probably was Otto Paul
Otto Phillip <-- I found him
listed this way in the 1900 census.
With your hints about their occupations, I was able to find Paul and
Phillip in several 1900-1940 census. If you don't have those, I can
email them to you.
Phillip also had a son, William. I found a Phillip Martin who died 27
Jan 1919 and this may be him. In the 1920 census, his wife was listed
as widowed.
I found Paul's Ohio Death Certificate on-line, I can send that to you
if you don't have it.
More later,
Mark |
Mark
This all fits
with what I discovered but was unsure about. The granddaughters of Paul were
all long livers. My mom, May Elizabeth Grill was 91; aunt Bub (Lillian
Augusta Grill was 92; Eleanor Marie (a twin) died at 89; her twin and my
godmother Hilda Josephine is still alive at 92. Good genes from the
Martin/Dietrich family.
As
for Philip, I'm not sure. I think that could be correct,
dying so young, but
will try to get to Dayton in a couple months. I also need to get to
Cincinnati to find Paul's original application for citizenship
as well as his passport. I have an abbreviated application for his passport
when he wanted to go back to Germany to visit his father listed as William,
and again when he just wanted to visit family where he listed his father as
deceased. The original citizenship papers hopefully will fill in a few
gaps.
How do you know
of Mollie Spindler? Do you know if her real name was Emelia? I'm trying
to figure out what Mollie is short for.
I should have
been doing all of this while my Aunt Bub was alive, but at the time, I was living in the
Philadelphia area (Cinnaminson, NJ). Once I moved back to Columbus with my late
husband, there was little time between his death and when I had to go to
work. I had 2 kids in college. Five years later, I married Peter Bouton
and my life took still another turn. We've been married 21 years, and I
feel blessed that happenstance brought us together.
So, that's
about all for right now. I'll wait for more
questions. :-)
Barbara |
(An
email to Barbara with her answers)
Sent: Monday, September 29, 2014 11:39 PM
To: Barbara Bouton
Cc: Sally DiVecchio
Subject: Old posts on Genealogy.com
Barbara,
I came across your old posts on genealogy.com from about 14 years ago.
In them you talked about Paul O. Martin's two wives. The Dietrich
sisters. Was the woman you referred to in your email, Anna Maria
Eleanora Martin Grill, one of the two wives? The first? -
>>
NO. She was Anna Maria Martin's daughter.
>>
***The
Dietrich sisters were: Marie Anna, the elder of the two, who
was the SECOND
wife, and Anna Maria who was the FIRST WIFE and my great grandmother. Anna Maria died very early -
before 1900. She and Paul had three childen: my grandmother (christened
Anna Maria Elenora), her brother William Frederich William (who I
think must have been named after Paul's father), and Louise. I don't
know if Louise's birth caused complications for Anna, or whether she died giving
birth to another child who didn't live. It was after that when when Paul
married Anna's older sister, Marie. Paul and Marie had 3 children -
Lillian, Hilda and Paul. They all married but had no children. Lillian
married an executive of the US Playing Card Company, Hilda married a guy named Jim
Sparks, and Paul got married and after a day or two, decided he didn't
like being married. He was a real waster. His father set him up in business
any number of times, and he always blew his chances away.
Lillian, jealous of Hilda's marriage, finally was able to split the couple
up. Hilda was putty in her hands. That is the saga
of the second
family.
>>
Paul
and Anna Maria's children were Anna Maria Elenora (my grandmother), her
brother
William Frederick (I have to find the actual spelling of "Frederick" known as Uncle Will by my
grandmother's children. He married Zelda (I can't tell you her last name off
the top of my head), but it seems Zelda was a "show girl" according to my
godmother. And then there was Louise, who married, but didn't have
children. She and her husband adopted a handicapped girl, whom I
didn't find out about until she had passed away.
I'm also confused - are you the granddaughter or great-granddaughter of
the Paul O. Martin who was born in 1863?
>>
I
am the great-granddaughter of Paul O. Martin.
I'm trying to see where you fit into that Martin family tree and its
left me with a headache! LOL.
But I've learned a lot more Otto Rudolph's brothers. Are you in contact
with any of Philip's descendants?
>>
No.
I haven't found them.
Do you know a man named Hoffman? Possibly Garry. That person has a
family tree starting with William Frederick Martin / Zelda Elizabeth
Sides on ancestry.com. Is that the same William, son of Paul
O.
Martin?
>>
Answer:
I'll take a look. I didn't know about this angle. I
don't think Zelda's
maiden name was Sides, but I'm not absolutely sure. It did
begin with
an S, and I know she was from Chicago. All of this is on a
crashed computer.
I'm hoping that Sony can get the thing up and running, but I don't think I will hold my
breath. Micro Center, our local experts couldn't do anything with
it. So, I have to go back to my paper documents and recreate everything.
>>
I
don't know if this information has helped straightening out the kinks
in the puzzle, but I sincerely hope so.
Sorry for all of the questions.
Mark |
1931 19 Jun - 'Cousins
on the Martin Side' Hilda & Lillian, Carola Martin
Kennedy (middle), Portland, OR
(written on back in Carola's handwritting)
From Carola's photo album. I didn't know who these people were until
Barbara emailed me with information.
Hilda and Lillian were the daughters of Paul O. Martin and his second
wife, Marie Anna Dietrich. |
1931 19 Jun - Carola & Joe Kennedy, Aunt Mary, Lillian
& Fred (Martin), Portland, OR
(written on back in Carola's handwritting)
Aunt Mary is Paul O. Martin's second wife.
Neither I nor Barbara know who Fred is. |
According to the 1920 census, the son of Phillip
Martin, also
a William A. Martin and his wife Lucille were traveling vaudeville
performers. This William in the 1930 census was a theatrical agent.
Mark |
From:
"Barbara Bouton" <bboutoncolumbus.rr.com>
Subject:
RE: William Martin, son of Phillip
Date:
Tue, 30 Sep 2014 14:28:24 -0400
Maybe that's
how my
grandmother's brother Will met Zelda??? As my aunt said, she
was
a showgirl. And, the two women lived within 3-4 miles of each
other for years and never once contacted each other. My aunt
loved her uncle Will, but that, I guess, is where it stopped.
She
would go downtown to GGF's fur shop, and if she wanted to visit with U.
Will, she went in the back door, for that was where he worked with the
furs. If she wanted to see her A. Hilda, she went in the
front
door, because Hilda was the main saleslady at the Practical
Furrier. Funny.
Got to get back to Cincinnati to talk with her some more.
Always
in the past when I would ask her anything, she didn't want to talk
about her family. But, my cousin Leslie (her daughter) and I
were
talking about what I had found so far, and I mentioned the name of
Sparks. I thought maybe he was the Sparks who sang with a
local
band, and this little voice popped up: Jim Sparks. I loved
Uncle
Jim. He was the nicest man. And if it hadn't been
for that
nasty Lillian, Aunt Hilda would have had a happy marriage.
Aunt
Lil couldn't stand for anyone to be happy. She was a really
vicious woman. She broke up A. Hilda & U. Jim's
marriage and
made A. Hilda go to California with them. [Before that, I
always
thought Hilda was the stinker. Sorry A. Hilda. It
was
Lillian.] None of the 3 kids from the second marriage of
Paul,
had children - I guess something good came out of that nasty situation.
Barbara |
Barbara,
Do you know who the Fred is in the photo with Mary and Lillian?
Mark |
Hi Mark,
I don't'
know. I wish
I could tell you. Grandmother talked about an Uncle Fred (or
was
it my 93 year old aunt?)
Barbara |
To:
"Barbara Bouton"
Subject:
Two William Frederick Martins
Date:
Thu, 02 Oct 2014 22:18:44 -0700
Barbara,
I looks like both Phillip and Paul named their first sons, William
Frederick Martin. Paul's son, born 9 Sep 1888 and Phillip's son, born 4
Aug 1890.
This probably means that the father of the 3 Martin brothers was
Wilhelm Friedrich Martin (German version of William Frederick).
I've only been able to find one son for Phillip (William Frederick) and
that William and his wife, Lucille had only one daughter, also named
Lucille. I can't find anything after that.
I found the WWI draft registrations for Paul's sons, William Frederick
and Paul Robert, both worked for their father's furrier company at 1116
Elm St. in Cincinnati.
I'm stumped now to find more about Phillip's family.
Mark |
Hi Mark,
Hate to burst
your bubble
about Paul Robert. He was the classic son of a rich man -
spoiled
rotten by his parents. Paul Sr. set Paul R. up with an auto
dealership. He must have felt he was too important to work at
it
- it tanked. The list goes on. How much his sister
Lillian
had to do with it, is anyone's guess. He drank, liked to
party,
was known all over the area and not very kindly. He got
married,
decided after a night he didn't like marriage. Poor girl -
either
she was ignorant of his past or thought she could reform him.
Either way, she really goofed up there.
Paul Sr.'s son
William
(Uncle Will) continued with the fur shop. It was on Elm St.
which
no longer exists. It was torn down and a park established
where
it once stood. I've been trying to find a photograph of it in
the
Cinci archives, but haven't been able to stay down long enough to
accomplish much. Too much family there who think we need to
visit
more. :-)
I've found ads
for the
Practical Furrier in the Cincinnati Enquirer. Family lore is
that
many famous actresses came to buy their furs there. And
supposedly, Paul Sr.'s wives (they were sisters) were cousins of
Marlena Dietrich. How close, I haven't been able to figure
out,
as Marlena never told the truth about herself, preferring her own
version. My grandmother told me about this. Aunt
Bub
(Lillian Augusta Grill Wootan) told about a connection to the
Hohenzollerns. I haven't been able to track that down,
either. And, don't know which side of the blanket.
It makes
for a good story at least. But Aunt Bub said Paul Sr. would
sit
with her on the back steps of the house on Daly Road and tell her
stories about the family until either Lil or Hilda would tell him to
cut it out. But Aunt Bub was convinced that he wasn't making
it
up.
Barb |
Barbara,
I looks like Paul R died in San Mateo, CA and is buried at Rest Haven
in Cincinnati. Is that right?
Mark |
| Yes. So is Lillian
and Hilda there as well as I THINK, Paul Sr. I haven't gone to the cemetery
yet. It's in Blue Ash, NE of Cincinnati. Anna, Paul
Sr.'s
first wife was buried in Cincinnati - possibly Spring Grove Cemetery (I'm not sure), but when my
grandmother went to visit her mother's grave, someone else was buried on
top of her, and the cemetery folks told her that Anna was never there - which
was a lot of nonsense, because she had been visiting her grave for years
and knew exactly where she was. I'm hoping, when I can find it, there is
something in Anna's obituary. I THINK she died in childbirth. It
would have been either her 4th child, or when Ella was born. More
questions than answers, I'm afraid. |
Lilian's married name is
Shepherd. I called my aunt. She's 93.
In section 1
lawn:
Paul Martin (the father); Paul A. Martin (either a type o or wrong info
- should read Paul R. Martin); Hilda M. Martin (M for Marie); Marie A.
Martin (grandmother's stepmother and sister of her mother); Lillian
Shepherd; Fred A. Shepherd (he was the president of the ___ Playing
Card Company - it was the big one out of the Cincinnati area.) These
are the only family buried there. None of Paul's children had
kids. I called my godmother about Fred's name. She
said
Lillian was the most beautiful woman she had ever seen - with the
bluest eyes imaginable - and the coldest. Hilda had been married to Jim
Sparks, one of the nicest men my godmother had ever known. I
think I told you that Lillian had convinced Hilda that she really
didn't want to be married, and moved her to California when she and
Fred left the Cincinnati area. Jim was more than a little
upset -
seems he really loved Hilda. I don't know what happened to
him. Hopefully, he remarried someone nice and had a
family.
Lillian and
Hilda did help
Ella Martin Clinton with her finances. She was a daughter of
the
first wife, remember, and as such was trash in their eyes as were the
rest. After Ella became an adult, she married ___ Clinton and they
adopted the daughter of their friends when the parents were killed in
an accident. The little girl was handicapped. My
aunt said
retarded. Ella was their charity case - but whether it lasted
after their father died, is anyone's guess. Ella and her
husband
lived about 2 blocks from the Martin bunch. The girl didn't
marry
and died (I think) in the 1990's. |
Spouse &
Children
