Date:
Fri, 15 Apr 2005 16:39:55 -0700
From: Cathy Youngblood
<mc.youngblood cox.net>
Subject: SPA Families - Oh,
What a Tangled Web They Wove
Hi Mark,
We
went back and forth a couple of times ages ago about our common
surnames in San Pietro Avellano. I have recently started to think
about the genealogy again (after a sabbatical of a few years from the
"dead relative" hunt) and I have been looking at your fantastic website
and see that my lines are not fully represented. Although I find that
you have much more information on my own ancestors than I do, I can add
a few tidbits as well as some stories.
Unfortunately, I am not the missing link that will take all of these
families from SPA and put them together. I don't think that can ever be
done. Over the years, I have been in communication with many of the
people who have contributed to your website. The 1st person I met
online was Wilberta DiVincenzo. We worked together to determine a link
between her Mariani's and mine but never did find one. Actually, she
did most of the work and was kind enough to help me out. She was able
to make a link between me and Lorry LaBate. It also looks like I do
connect with some of the others who have contributed to your data but
even though we share the same surnames over and over, I don't see a
connection with you, Wilberta or Gerri (Frazzini) Bottomly - who
actually grew up a few blocks away from the house where I grew up. She
was a bit ahead of me though.
I do
SURMISE that a possible connection may exist with the Frazzini brothers
of Denver and my great-grandparents, Antonio Rosario Carlini (Tony
Carleno) and Lucia (Mariani) Carlini. In the early 1920's, Grandpa Tony
& Grandma Lucia sold their share of the masseria in SPA to Grandpa
Tony's brother, Fillipo and his wife, Elisabetta (Mariani) Carlini -
she was sister to Grandma Lucia (i.e. two brothers m. two sisters).
At/around that time Tony and Lucia were living in Denver on Navajo
Street. Apparently, the bank that was handling the sale of the farm
failed and all of Tony & Lucia's nest egg was lost - about $800 but
seemed like $1 million to them. I am pretty sure that they would have
certainly taken their financial transaction to Prospero's bank, so it
is possible that the bank that failed was Prospero's. Tragic for both
families. Tony went back to work in the coal mines for about 10 years
after they lost the money from the masseria and they were both bitter
about the whole thing for the rest of their lives My mother said they
claimed that they were cheated by relatives. But they did manage to buy
their house in old North Denver (4010 Clay Street) by 1936. I do have
to say, lucky for me that Grandpa Tony went back to work in the mines -
otherwise, my own grandparents might never have met.
By
the time they moved into their home on Clay Street, their children were
rapidly leaving the nest, the days of working in the coal mines were
behind them and they lived close to a few relatives. Giuseppe (Joe)
DiLorenzo, 1st cousin to Grandma Lucia, moved in across the street and
Giuseppe's brother, Alessandro (Alex) DiLorenzo lived within a mile.
But I think they were bitter people and not very happy. I don't
remember them having the family over and I don't remember meeting
family members outside their immediate family. I do remember them
both fondly, though. Grandpa Tony had piercing blue-green eyes and
those eyes held a twinkle. He always had a 50 cent piece in his pocket
for me. Grandma Lucia died when I was in high school. I wish I would
have asked her questions about her life before she died but even if I
would have thought to do so, she refused to speak English to anyone,
and I could only pick up bits and pieces of what she was talking about.
I don't remember ever eating a meal in their home - the Sunday dinner
was at my Gram's house and they seldom came. I have heard that Grandma
Lucia was a terrible cook and that her Polenta was like glue. Grandpa
Tony died in January of 1966 - he was shoveling snow and had a heart
attack.
My
Gram, who we called Little Luch (after her mother, of course), was the
1st in her family born in the US and she arrived exactly 9 months after
her mother's arrival in the US. She was born Igina Carlino (from the
naturalization papers) in New Castle, Garfield, CO. Her name like those
of her parents and siblings was Americanized and she was Jean Virginia
Carleno. Gram didn't have much memory for the New Castle days. She was
b. in 1911 and lived there until about 1920/21. She didn't speak any
English until she went to school in New Castle. I have often thought
that if she would have tried to remember about New Castle in Italian
that her memories would have come flooding back. New Castle was a
company town pretty much and the Italians were on the bottom wrung of
the ladder - they worked in the old Vulcan mine, which was notorious
for massive explosions, killing many, many miners. To this day, when
you drive through New Castle, you can see the scar on the mountain on
the other side of the Colorado River, where the Vulcan is still burning
underground. Periodically, there is talk about trying to put out the
underground fire, and start Her up again but I don't think anyone would
ever really do it! My Gram's time in New Castle was during WWI - do
doubt a big topic of conversation as her brothers were teenagers by
1917. Gram remembered that she was often afraid that Kaiser Bill
(Kaiser Wilhelm) would come to get her. She was also bullied by a
little girl named Bettina - no doubt someone a step higher on the
ladder. There was also the turmoil concerning the unions. Since so many
of them came to work in the coal mines, I am pretty sure the story was
the same among many of the families. Tony Carleno was not a union man
but eventually had his own mine with a couple of other men, rather than
work in the dangerous Vulcan. The family did have some fun though. I
heard stories about fishing trips and hunting trips up in the high
mountains. New Castle is so similar to SPA that I am sure that is why
they went there.
Gram met my grandfather, Quirino Madonna, when she was working as a
mine clerk in Louisville, CO. Her parents were living a few miles away
in Columbine, CO - her father worked at the Columbine mine. Gram &
Gramps ran off and got married by the J.P. in Golden, CO in 1930. Of
course, they went quietly and meekly home to their respective houses
and eventually screwed up the courage to tell their parents that they
had married. My Gram said that he father, Grandpa Tony, bellowed and
struck his fist on the table, when she announced that she was married.
He said "You are not married, until Rocco Madonna (my grandfather's
father) comes to my house and we say that you are married." Well, I
guess that happened because I am here to relate the story, although
it's pretty sorry compared to the tales that my Gram would weave for me
when I'd ask her to "tell me about when you were a little girl".
I am sending you some information in attached e-mails, as well as some
photos - consequently, I'm going to send you quite a bit over the next
little while. If you need me to format differently or print and mail to
you, I'll be happy to do so. I apologize for taking so long to
participate in your great project. Hope to hear from you when you get a
chance.
Best regards,
Cathy (Madonna) Youngblood
|
Date:
Fri, 15 Apr 2005 16:55:22 -0700
From:
Cathy Youngblood <mc.youngbloodcox.net>
Subject: SPA Families
Mark,
My husband is just now coming in the door and it is Friday as well, so
I will be quick with this. I have taken the liberty of adding some of
your information to fill things out, but have tried to denote where I
have "stolen" your data. I will fill in with notes as soon as possible
- hopefully, this weekend yet. If we both have the info, I haven't
marked anything. My additions to your data are noted with * (please
note that I haven't marked all the children with * - it would have
taken me forever) and "stolen" information with **. As you can see, I
have pieced together the scant information I had on the DiLorenzo's and
managed to match some stuff up with what you have. I will send you some
other notes, research and mysteries, etc. that I don't see that you
have with in the next few days. It's almost prepared - I just have to
explain some of my wanderings and organize it so that you can maybe put
it all together.
Regards,
Cathy (Madonna) Youngblood
Here are Cathy's
Trees in PDF format.
|
Dear Cathy,
Great to hear from you. I remember emailing you a couple of years ago
when I was just starting my genealogy research.
I was sorry to loose touch. Over that time, I've found a couple of
people on-line who are related to you. But, as you noted, you and I are
not yet related.
Almost all of the info I have on unrelated branches is on my Graphicial
Trees. Have you looked at all of those? Sometimes, when I found
cousins
of cousins (so, actually, unrelated to me), I still put them in my GED
file so you might want to download that as well.
You are, of course, welcome to "share" any information that I have.
Sharing is really what genealogy is all about.
It will take me a couple of days to go through your emails. I will also
gather up the email addresses of your cousins and get them into an
email to you.
I especially appreciated the photos. Seeing those is the real
connection to the past.
Mark
|
Date:
Tue, 19 Apr 2005 11:38:47 -0700
From:
Cathy Youngblood <mc.youngbloodcox.net>
Subject: RE: SPA Families -
Oh, What a Tangled Web They Wove
Hi Mark,
Glad you enjoyed the emails and photos. I have lots
of other photos somewhere - I am not very organized. But when I come
across something I will send it on to you. I have enjoyed looking at
the photos on your website and have tried to decide if there is a
resemblance to my own relatives. If there is, I really can't see it.
Sorry about the formatting. I cut & pasted the first
time, not even thinking that the formatting would be lost. All my very
disorganized notes are at the end of the trees and I wanted to have a
chance to "clean" the notes up so you wouldn't throw your hands up in
despair when you saw them. I will keep working on them for you.
Part of the reason that I am so incredibly
disorganized is that I have been doing this off and on since I was
about 16 years old (I'll be 50 in June). What started off as a project
in a H.S. History class has turned into a life long passion.
Unfortunately, after I managed to pull together notes from my Gram and
her cousin, Onelia (Carlini) Settefrati, and write the original paper,
I have discovered that while I am good at being a hunter/gatherer, I'm
really lousy at the production angle and there is no finished product.
I have high hopes though.
I am glad you found that our lines do actually tie
in way back. I'm not so very surprised though. I know from research
done on my mother's side (they were early arrivals in New England) that
I am my own cousin numerous times over. My Mom's father was a cousin to
my Mom's mother's cousin and my Mom's mother's cousin was very distant
kin to my husband. These connections take place in the colonies prior
to our own Revolutionary War. Can you imagine the links between the
families of a small town like SPA which goes back to Medieval times?
It's mind-boggling!
I am delighted that your trees and data have helped
me to clear up my relation to the DiLorenzo's of North Denver. I knew
that they were first cousins to my g-grandmother, Lucia (Mariani)
Carlini and I figured that the connection was through her mother, Maria
Bernardina DiLorenzo, but I didn't have everything to make the exact
links. So, it is one of my mysteries solved. Joe DiLorenzo lived across
the street from Tony & Lucia Carleno. His son, Elio, apparently
inherited or bought the home from him. I went to H.S. and played tennis
with one of Elio's daughters as well. I knew that we were cousins but
didn't know how.
I think that my great-grandfather's brothers, Donato
(Donatangelo) and Tommaso may have come to the US as early as 1881
(from the 1910 Garfield County, CO Census) but more likely about 1886.
Donato has always been one of my greatest mysteries, but all that is in
my notes, so I will send it along later. (Mark's note: Read about it here.)
BTW, I was looking at the photo you have on your
website of the SPA Militia and looking at your list of the men. I
believe that #15, Augusto, Adelco Morelli, is the son of Angela Mariani
(sister to my g-g'ma, Lucia) and her husband, Ruggerio Morelli. Augusto
was "lost" in the war.
I need to get some stuff done today but will have a
look through some photos, etc., and get to work on my "notes". So more
later!
Best regards,
Cathy
|
Cathy,
That was a very interesting batch of emails. I especially liked the
photos.
I did have some trouble with the text version of your trees. They seem
to have lost the formating so I can't tell who is a child of whom. I
looks like you used indenting but the indenting was lost when I
received it and everying is lined up.
Can you try sending it again or maybe send in a different format?
I took what I was able to figure out and I put it on my Frazzini Tree
Part 3. I also had to split that page so I moved some of what was
on it
and made a Frazzini
Tree Part 5.
You are related to many of the trees that I've found. You are also
related to me. Filippo Frazzino is my 3rd great granduncle. Here is
what my genealogy computer program says:
"Cathy Madonna and Mark Camillo DiVecchio are 5th cousins 1 time
removed. Their common ancestors are Giusto Frazzino and Sabina
Marracino."
I'm still working on understanding it all.
Mark
|
Date:
Wed, 20 Apr 2005 12:57:39 -0700
From: Cathy
Youngblood <mc.youngbloodcox.net>
Subject: BTW
Mark,
Just a by-the-way, I was completely blown away to see that my
g-grandfather, Antonio Rosario Carlini, had a sister, Cristina Antonia.
I wonder what happened to her. I had only heard about the 4 brothers -
which seemed unusual since I haven't seen any Italian families of their
era who didn't have at least 7 children and usually more. Maybe
Cristina died young. My Grams 1st cousin, Onelia (Carlini) Settefrati,
is the one who supplied the names of that generation and if she had an
aunt living, I'm sure she would have included her. Onelia was from SPA
- in fact, the post card you have
on one of your pages is from Onelia
to Grandma Lucia. I do have the original of the postcard.
Anyway, just thought I'd mention that!
TTYL,
Cathy |
Date:
Wed, 20 Apr 2005 15:48:34 -0700
From:
Cathy Youngblood <mc.youngbloodcox.net>
Subject: Various information
from my "notes"
Dear Mark,
I think some of this stuff is stuff that you do not have, so will start
with it. Hopefully, it will be a contribution that will be of use.
Please note my comments are in red. I hope that formatting works. If
not, it's really a waste to use MS Word as my e-mail default.
First thing is the Carlini's who were in prison in CO. None of them are
mine but I have heard about Pete Carlino and read about him. When we
lived in Denver, I was a regular at the library looking for any history
about Denver. Pete Carlino is one of the characters who I learned about
but don't know if or how he might fit into the SPA story. Pete and his
brother, Sam, were gangsters who started out in Pueblo, CO. They
eventually moved their operation to North Denver, where Pete and his
family owned a pretty impressive home. Unfortunately, the home was
bombed. In 1931, Sam was murdered in Denver and shortly after, Pete was
also murdered near the State Pen in Cañon City, CO. He had gone there
to visit someone. Pete Carlino had been dubbed the "Al Capone of
Southern Colorado" and he was pretty much the boss in Denver for a
short time. These Carlino brothers were bootleggers. Their history is
tied to Pueblo and Trinidad, CO, which is just across the border from
Dawson, NM. I have no clue if they do belong to the SPA immigrant bunch
but it's interesting anyway. It is possible that part of the reason
these brothers turned to a life of crime was that the Klan was very
active in CO during those times. Not a valid reason to engage in crime
but those types of emotional issues don't always seem to need good
reasons.
In the 1920's, the Klan supported Benjamin Stapleton in his bid to
become mayor of Denver. In "gratitude" for the support of the Klansmen,
newly elected Mayor Stapleton, appointed many of them to positions in
City Government, including the police department. Quite a few, if not
most of the Prohibition Agents in Colorado were also Klansmen. I wonder
if the influence of these Klansmen was part of the reason that the
authorities moved so quickly on Prospero Frazzini and the Italian
American Bank. The
following website has some of this information but I have heard it from
other sources as well, that the Klan in Colorado had it out for
Italians and that it sometimes made life difficult for our people.
http://www.americanmafia.com/Cities/Denver.html
(for more information about these Carlini brothers).
I don't know who John/Johnny Carlini was - although, he could have been
my grandmother's older brother. Somehow, I think it probably would have
slipped if he had been in jail.
Denver Public Library Website - on-line database
Colorado State Archives Rm. 13-20, 1313 Sherman St., 80203
Colorado State Reformatory Prisoner Records, 1887-1929
Prison at Buena Vista, usually 16-25 years of age, usually convicted of
crimes other than murder and voluntary manslaughter.
1. Carlini, John, #8974, Prison Record Volume #20
(1935-1937)
2. Carlini, Johnny, #8974, Prison Record Volume #19
(1935-1937)
3. Carlino, Pete, #5124, Prison Record Volume #11
(1920-1922)
4. Carlino, Stefano C., #3973, Prison Record Volume
#9 (1915-1918)
[Mark's note: Aug 2005, I've searched
through the SPA birth records for about when Pete and Sam would have
been born but I have not found them.]
I'm terrible because I still read the obits in the Denver Post on-line
once or twice a week. Keeps me up with what goes on in Denver.
http://search.abracat.com/search.cw1
2/24/02
Horan & McConaty - FRAZZINI - Mary Frazzini, 97, daughter of the
late Cesare and Degna Frazzini, co-founder of Empire State Bank and
benefactor of many Catholic charities died February 21, 2002. She is
survived by the families of Bob, Lewis, Richard and Connie Frazzini,
Jerry Bottomly, Phyllis LaGuardia, Norma Krasovich, Lucille Wilson,
Betty Horan, Felicia Robbie and Vincent Zarlengo. Rosary, Monday, 7:00
p.m., Horan & McConaty Family Chapel, 3020 Federal Blvd. Funeral
Mass, Tuesday, 10:00 am, St. Catherine of Siena Catholic Church, 4200
Federal Blvd. Interment, Crown Hill Cemetery. Location: CO.
Date: 2/24/2002. Source: Post-News Classified.com
I think I saw that you had some Frazzini's in Louisville or Boulder, CO
on your site. I have seen these Louisville Frazzini's elsewhere
and I think the wife was a DiLorenzo. I have Madonna relatives
buried in this cemetery - also called South Boulder Cemetery
Sacred Heart of Mary Catholic Graveyard, Boulder, CO - South east of
Boulder, CO, established in 1873, Cemetery walked 3 March 1999 by Sue
(Gann) Splady and surveyed by Reagan Splady
1. Cassio, H. Frazzini, d. 5/27/1907, age 2 years
I think you have these on Prospero's page but will send them along as
well.
http://www.sctc.state.co.us/Marriages/divorces.aspx
Colorado Divorce Detail
Petitioner: Frazzini, Felicito
Respondent: Frazzini, Dorinda
Docket # 029098
County: Denver
Date: 04/20/1899
Decree Type: Divorce
Petitioner: Frazzini, Josephine
Respondent: Frazzini, Daniano
Docket #064835
County: Denver
Date: 06/16/1924
Decree Type: Divorce
This is definitely a family from SPA - just curious. I am always
looking for the missing link
Who was the Marianna Carline (or was it Carlini/o) who m. Pasquale
Mariani and had a whole bunch of children in SLC??? I found them in the
IGI
More later.
Cathy
|
Dear Cathy,
May I use the photos and stories you send on my web site? Since your
family seems to be "well connected" relative-wise, there may be a lot
of people out there who would like to read about them. I'll leave
out anything you don't want to me to use. I always leave out the birth
day and month of anyone still living. I don't use email addresses
unless I'm given permission.
Speaking of email addresses, there are some people who I've contacted
over the past few years, like Wilberta, who might like to know that you
are on-line again. May I send them your email address?
I found Donato Angelo Carlino in: US Census 1900 Colorado - T623 R128
P290. I can send you the scan if you like.
Filippo full name, per the microfilms, was "Domenico Filippo".
I think I had the following data wrong - here is the correct info:
Domenicantonio Carlini b. 1794 m. Marta
diLodovico b. 1808
son Beniamino Antonio b. 12 May
1828
9 other children
Lot of relatives are buried in Ogden - you can see them in green
on the Trees.
Floriana Raffaela Carlino mother of Domenico disanza who married Lydia
Malan and must have converted to Morman. The Malan family was from
around Turino in Piedmonte and her father and grandfather were part of
the Morman Pioneer families. There are a couple links to other web
sites on my Ogden page.
I noticed another connection in Frazzini Tree Part 5: Domenico Carlino
and Marta diLudovico are common ancestors to Bob Frazzini of Bob's
Limo's in Roma. I've emailed Bob a few times. He lives in Roma bobromelimousines.com
Mark
|
Date:
Wed, 20 Apr 2005 12:47:37 -0700
From:
Cathy Youngblood <mc.youngbloodcox.net>
Subject: RE: SPA Families -
Oh, What a Tangled Web They Wove
Mark,
Please use everything I have sent you so far. I have looked through and
although some of the "stories" include some surmise on my part, I don't
see anything that I think would be offensive and I am certainly open to
hearing different interpretations or corrections. In fact, I think
that's how some of our mysteries get solved and we get to know the
people so much better. I do appreciate your sensitivity to living
people and not compromising their privacy. I am not sure about the
status of some of the cousins in Italy (i.e. descendants of Domenico
Fillipo Carlini and Maria Elisabetta Mariani - the last I heard about
some of them was 1970. Although, Attilo diSanza updated me on a couple
of them). I don't have birthdates for most of them anyway and maybe
we'll get lucky and they will google their own names and we'll find new
cousins too!!
As for the photos, they are all of dead people and I think it's
actually a good way to memorialize them. The originals of all these
photos are in my possession as well and they do belong to me - so no
problem that I can think of. Same with e-mail addresses - please feel
free to send it on. On our website, we do require that people register
or know the override - mostly because we are "overly protective" of the
children. Our son, Ben, is currently revamping the whole site, so there
isn't anything there.
YES, YES, I would love to have the 1900 census scan of Donato. I hadn't
found him in the 1900 census, although I do have him in 1910 about 2
months before he died. The 1900 census might just answer a few
questions. It is so disappointing that the 1890 census was destroyed as
it would have answered a lot of questions about some of the early ones.
I am putting together my notes about Donato and will send them
separately. (Mark's note: Read about it here.)
Thanks for the update about Fillipo (Domenico Fillipo) as well as
Domenicantonio Carlini & Marta diLudovico (I had her as Maria and
he as just Domenico, I think).
I am pretty sure that the descendants of Emilio Mariani (b. 1884), son
of Giovanni Cosmo Mariani and Maria Giacinta Colaizzi, also became
Mormon. I corresponded for a short time with his g-granddaughter,
Sherry Mariani Arthur, who lived in one of the SLC burbs, if I remember
right. She was just starting out and must not have continued because I
never heard from her again. Of course, she could have been like me and
taken a sabbatical. I found that genealogy was being too important and
taking up too much of my time for awhile, so I just boxed it all up,
even though I knew that someday I would open that Pandora's box again.
Have you ever heard from Sherry? I don't see that you have any
representation of her line, so maybe not.
I have been studying your trees and I'm surprised to find so many ties.
You surely have done a lot of work to make it all come together and tie
all the threads. I am also surprised that so many records actually did
survive the War. I remember the home movies that my Gram & Gramps
brought home from SPA in 1963. It was almost 20 years after the war was
over and there was still rubble everywhere. Wish I knew what had
happened to those movies!!
One of the granddaughters of Domenico Fillipo Carlini was born at the
masseria on the night when the Americans liberated the town from the
Germans according to the family stories. I guess it was very
frightening for them but happy too that the Americans had come.
More later,
Take care!
Cathy |
Cara Cathy,
Boy, you really got me thinking again about my grandfather's time in
Colorado.
I looked again at his Naturalization, which was 17 Oct 1904 in
Trinidad, CO. One of the witnesses was a "Donato Danio Carlino".
Well Danio is not an Italian name or an Americanization so I was
wondering if it is a mis-transcription of Antonio?
For what its worth, the other witness was Andrea Putaturo.
I just did a check of Ellis Island and there are two records for him,
1899 and 1904. His first name is written Donatangelo each time BUT for
the 1904 entry, the name Antonio is written above the "angelo" part of
the name. By 1899, he was a US citizen and had been in the US from 1881
to 1898. In 1904, he was going to Denver, CO.
I guess that squares things. He was born Donatangelo but here in the
US, he was known as Donato Antonio.
What do you think? Had you already figured this out?
Ciao, Marco
|
Good morning, Mark!
So, you have decided to climb onto Uncle Donato's Wild Ride too. This
man is actually a total mystery to me and I think there was a cover-up
about
him among the family. Here's the story - moving backwards throughout
his
life:
|
Apr 2006 - Cathy sent me a few more photos and other scans. Some of these people she knows but some she does not.
